Tuesday, April 25, 2006

happy equal pay day!

ah, what shall i do with that extra 28 cents my full dollar will bring me?
oh, the dreams!

yeah, hard to believe that, since the 60s and despite the federal law, women's wages have remained pretty darn flat - still earning only 71-77 cents on a man's dollar for comparable work.

but if you live in illinois and suspect that a wage violation has ocurred at your job, the Dept of Labor will sue for back wages!

all you have to do is call their hotline, file a complaint and they do all the work:
1-866-372-4365

(this is how i spend my lunch hours: at brown bag lunches with other women in the city, in the governor's office, listening to presentations from the department of labor and the dept of employment services. it's not exciting, but they gave us cake. lesson? we have GOT to learn how to negotiate salary.)

40 comments:

Bonita said...

yes we do. i've been going on job interviews downtown and thinking precisely this point. i have got to do this stronger and harder. please write us a book churchgal.

ding said...

i can only give you the advice i took from a mentor of mine: know your worth, know what the market can bear and know what your male counterpart is making.

factors: experience, education, location, industry standard. when i began to interview with firms just before this non profit gig, i knew that if i landed with a large firm that i wanted my salary to increase by a certain (large) amount; i also knew what my friends were making in the same field and thought, 'ok - that's what their firm is willing to pay - this is doable.' and so i established a bottom below which i could not accept and made that other amount my target.

i argued that my education and industry experience gave me knowledge that no other person could bring to the position. and if they wanted someone with top schools, top firms and solid exposure in her background, they could pay for it.

negotiating isn't about the salary, half the time. it's about telling your firm what you expect, your promise to deliver and about demanding respect.

in this current job, i know that i'm being paid well below my value. i know it and my bosses know it. so i told them my expectations - while i expect to work my ass off and learn alot, i also expect some kind of pay off after a certain period of time. either salary or position - or, if necessary, some kick ass recommendations and introductions when i make a move to the next level.

men have no problem swaggering into an office, plopping down and demanding twice their worth. and now, neither do i.

Verlch said...

Ladies. Do you know why you make less? Because you work less.

Women shouldn't make the same amount as a man that has worked at a place for 40 years. It takes time to build up you $$$$ and having babies doesn't help.

Studies by Warren Farrel state that women who choose career over marriage actually make more than men, because of favoritism and promotions simply for being a girl.

Your studies were done in Russia, where female garabage collectors earn the same as Lawyers. Guess what, the Lawyers didn't try very hard, to work, or to be the best.

Is that where you ladies want to end up? In communism?

Brandon said...

So, let me get this straight.

You're trusting research from a dude who also researched and found that mother-son incest wasn't such a bad thing most of the time, that father-daughter incest was mostly okay if you came from the "upper class" and that most of father-daughter incest was the fault of the mother.

You're trusting the guy who stated that "incest is like a magnifying glass. In some circumstances it magnifies the beauty of the relationship..." (Excerpt taken from the interview Warren Farrell gave to Penthouse Magazine.)

You're holding up high the banner of intellectual integrity that earned a PhD not in economics, or sociology (two disciplines that MIGHT be qualified to make assertions about women's work and pay) but political science.

Warren Farrell stacks the research deck until he finds what he likes. His research is shit and cannot be trusted. Anything he writes is the fruit of the poison tree.

Verlch, come back with something you can prove.

P.S. Ding, I thing I saw that you were in the last Geez Mag, weren't you?

ding said...

brandon,
yeah, i was!
i have another mini-assignment coming up for the next one, i think. (if i choose to accept it.)

i didn't write for the lent issue but i'm glad i keep getting their pitch calls.

Brandon said...

I've got a little assignment, too. Hopefully I don't blow it.

Verlch said...

Brandon,

Women work about 36 hrs a week on average to 50 to 60 for men. Yes men should get paid more, for more work

If a garage women, gets paid the same as a lawyer, the lawyer is not going to work extremely hard. That is communist and Marxist in design. Doesn't work.

Women like part time, comfortable jobs in air conditioned units. Men account for 95% of on the job deaths, dangerous work pays alot more than the jobs women choose.

Plus many women take time out for children, babies, etc.

It's been found that women who choose a paper money career over children, actually earn more than men, perhaps to rational like the never ending feminist debate over wages, and how they should earn millions more than men.

Feminists exaggerate, this is a prime example.

Do not forget as well, that men have ex wives, wives and children to support. Women only support themselves, unless they are single mothers, still there are plenty of hand outs for single mothers.

My buddies brother was paying 2000 a month in child support, to a woman with a wonderful job, and was supported by her new husband that she left my buddies brother for.

He died at 36 from the stress of not eating healthfully because he earned the exact amount he had to pay for child support.

When he died, the government took over the payments for the children. $2000 a month.

He also only got to see his children one weekend a month, hardly an involved father. Hardly equal as well.

Anonymous said...

PV, your wrong! Think about what your writing. I had to laugh at that one because I work my butt off! Your funny, too funny. Do you live in the states?

Verlch said...

You can work your butt off. A man at the same job as you, for the same hourly rate, will get paid the exact same. The only thing that can effect the end numbers of the year, is number of hours worked. If a man chooses to work 10 more hours a week than a woman, who gets paid the same, he will get, if the wages are 10.45/hr, an extra 5,000 per year. It doesn't mean women are held down, it means he worked harder.

Another thing that bothers me, is all the lawsuits by women who think they are management material, while only working part time, or less. Why should the man, who works 10% to 20% more man hours, be looked over for promotions? In the name of fake gender hinderment?

mona said...

Verlch
what if I'm a single woman who husband who left her because he decided that his role as provider was not, um him! Because of his irresponsible ways I have to make money to feed four of his children. So getting paid more sounds pretty good to me!What do you say to this feminist?

Mona

Verlch said...

No you should get paid what the market will bear, as composed of you skills and level of education. In my line of work, my $$$ are unlimited, their only limit is my ability to sell my product, and get trust from customers.

So if I make 500 a day in a capitalist system, why should you be paid more for your children? Why should you be paid favorites? What if a man has a current wife, two ex wives and 12 children. Why should he have to support all of them, simply because he is a man?

Bad things happen in a bad world, chances are, if you had raised that man, with a two parent system, with the bible as the center, he wouldn't have run off. What was the quality of the marriage? Did he have grounds to leave? Was she tormenting him for simply being a man, and none other? For working too many hours, and not doing all the things she demanded?

Again bad things happen in a bad world, 50% of men are raised by single mothers, who are never there. Where have all the good men gone? They are being raised without their fathers. Raised by gangs, after school parties, without parental involvement. Latch key boys, who come home to an empty cold house, with mom MIA and dad not allowed to see them for two weeks, as he is the one weekend a month father.

AS well as the system being built on Currency for We the Bankers. Not We the People. It is really hard to build a future, with your wealth being confiscated by inflation, and other insane practices.

Did you know Hitler was elected by the female vote, after they won the right to vote?

ding said...

PV,
you know you sound absolutely crazy, don't you?

not because you disagree. no. if you actually argued from the position that women in the workforce depress wages and could reference something other than HITLER, for jeebus' sake, then maybe we wouldn't write you off for a nutbag.

who cares about divorce? that's not germane to this discussion. who cares about old tired stereotypes about shoes in closets? that's totally beside the point and it shows you have some weird bizarre personal nut you need to crack instead of actually arguing or discussing the merits!

take the meds and focus!

(or i'll be forced, once again, to delete your weird ramblings.)

Mona said...

Whew!!! Thanks Ding for calling Velrch CRAZY!!!, I was thinking something else,but that is a nice way to put it. Did you read his comment about me raising my childen without a father; A man who left me raising his kids without child support, Velrch, I will taking those raises, Thank you very much!!!!

ding said...

in conversations i have with other women who work, one thing that we talk about is the way that the nature of work needs to change. for working mothers, they're forced to make a choice between working and housework. for the single working woman, we're the ones who pick up the slack when the working parent has to leave.

part of PV's anger (for that's what it is) stems from the heavy sacrifice our capitalist system requires from everyone - both men and women. we all are working more hours for less money (both for salaried and hourly employees).

this conversation has been focused on women (or there's been an attempt at focusing) but men also pay a heavy price for the way our country defines work - less time at home, distance from their children and spouses, increased health crises (there's no secret that men drop dead faster than women), and a devaluation of their work in the end, anyway.

now, is this women's fault? you could say that this is the natural process of a globalizing economy. so, if someone wants to blame women, blame india, china, and south america, too.

so what is the modern worker to do? it's not like we can just send women home and that'll solve anything (except some fragile male pride).

i think that workers need to work smarter. that businesses need to work smarter. i think flex time is a good thing; i think working from home one day a week is a good thing; i think paid family leave is a good thing. these are all rational things that make working (even working at a low end job) less hellish. and more worthwhile.

but, yeah, i'll take that raise, too.

Verlch said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Anonymous said...

"Bad things happen in a bad world, chances are, if you had raised that man, with a two parent system, with the bible as the center, he wouldn't have run off. What was the quality of the marriage? Did he have grounds to leave? Was she tormenting him for simply being a man, and none other? For working too many hours, and not doing all the things she demanded?"




Verlch...I was wondering about your comments to the lady who's husband ran out on her since you yourself are divorced.
1.) What was the quality of the marriage?
2.) Did she have grounds to leave?
3.) Were you simply tormenting her for being a woman?
4.) For working long hours and not being everything you wanted?

It seems to me that if a someone other than a white male complains about injustice then they are "whiners". But, white males like yourself (certainly not the good ones) seem to complain about EVERYTHING! Why? Because the government and women are out to get them! *Stomp* Its not fair!

Verlch said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Verlch said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Anonymous said...

"No you should get paid what the market will bear, as composed of you skills and level of education. In my line of work, my $$$ are unlimited, their only limit is my ability to sell my product, and get trust from customers.

So if I make 500 a day in a capitalist system, why should you be paid more for your children? Why should you be paid favorites? What if a man has a current wife, two ex wives and 12 children. Why should he have to support all of them, simply because he is a man?

Bad things happen in a bad world, chances are, if you had raised that man, with a two parent system, with the bible as the center, he wouldn't have run off. What was the quality of the marriage? Did he have grounds to leave? Was she tormenting him for simply being a man, and none other? For working too many hours, and not doing all the things she demanded?

Again bad things happen in a bad world, 50% of men are raised by single mothers, who are never there. Where have all the good men gone? They are being raised without their fathers. Raised by gangs, after school parties, without parental involvement. Latch key boys, who come home to an empty cold house, with mom MIA and dad not allowed to see them for two weeks, as he is the one weekend a month father.

AS well as the system being built on Currency for We the Bankers. Not We the People. It is really hard to build a future, with your wealth being confiscated by inflation, and other insane practices.

Did you know Hitler was elected by the female vote, after they won the right to vote?"

Nope...looks like all of your junk is still here.

ding said...

verlch,
yes, you're still banned because you're still crazy.

you have your own site that you've kindly pointed everyone to, which i haven't erased.

you crossed a line earlier when you talked about 'jewish feminists' that will not be tolerated. so, buh-bye.

ding said...

let's not forget my commenting policy: the space here is like my house. if you piss me off in my house, you get escorted out.

is that weakness? nope. just the privilege of being the hostess.

Anonymous said...

I get enough of this guy and his kind on Vox Popoli...today's topic...if women aren't Christian what reason do they have not to have an affair? Yeah...they are scraping the bottom of the barrel! Check it out though...a lie Patriarch has told is exposed:


Finally proof that the Patriarch is full of bull!


"My wife drones on all day about work aswell. She even goes so far as to want me to show up so she can parade me around the office. I don't want to go there, these women see the best of me, and I'm sure hear the worst."
Patriarch Verlch | Homepage | 08.26.06 - 4:10 pm | #


Now, I thought about this statement because I have been to the site of Verlch, and he has stated that hiswife is a slob who sits around the house and does nothing...and always has. Then, he says she has a job? Surely, he would never allow such a thing...because of his strong beliefs.

On his blog is this question:
"What does your wife so during the day anyway?"

Answer:
"Cleans the house. Shops, and makes me dinner."


Face it ladies...this guy probably lives in his mother's basement and doesn't even have a wife!

ding said...

snort.
you're kidding. if a woman isn't christian then she's automatically a whore? niice.

i wish i could be the tiny fly to get insight into his pathology. really. it must make fascinating reading.

and thank you for going to his site so the rest of us don't have to.

Matriarch Verlch said...

Then he latest comment to what I've asked:


"Work, family whatever, she loves too talk about it.

What are you trying to point out inconstancies to void all my other statements. What does it matter what my wife does, she does whatever she wants, how's that Brain Surgeon?"

Patriarch Verlch | Homepage | 08.29.06 - 3:51 am | #


Notice that he can't explain it however.

Verlch said...

More chicken liver feminists...

Check out my website!!!

Matriarch Verlch said...

Lol...Poor Little Idiot!

Matriarch Verlch said...

If you can't explain your lies...shut up and don't make it any worse.

ding said...

after a hard day at the office, oppressing men everywhere, i have to admit this exchange makes me laugh.

Matriarch Verlch said...

"I'll be the roaring lion on the Internet, who, all too gleefully, will point out the weakest spot of fem logic."

He's a roaring lion? So he sits under a tree and licks his balls while the women hunt? Ok, sure. He's going to fight fem logic with inbread hill-billy logic. Hot-Diggity!

Matriarch Verlch said...

"I and my fellow MRA's must point that out, and warn the world."

MRA...Male Retarded Assholes?

Matriarch Verlch said...

"No man should come under the authority of a women. It's my observation that women are indeed unable to change a man, we are hard wired to not listen to them when they get bossy. These women should stop even trying to change a man. Men can change a women, for those interested, I have changed my wife into the women I want and need."

and we're proud assholes! If my wife needs something...I will ignore her...because I'm hardwired to be a callous bastard. However, my wife is like putty in my hands and I will mold her in my image.

Who is this guy fooling? A month ago...he said he wife wanted a divorce and he didn't have the money for one so they were just ignoring each other completely. A few days ago she worked in an office. Now, she's a submissive little thing that he made? Yeah...ok.

Anonymous said...

"Because of 6' 6" 250, 18 inch guns (arms for the slangless robotic feminagges)."

We're robots because we don't understand street slang?

ding said...

i'm still scratching my head over 'feminagges'.

is that french? femi-nadj-uhs.
or is that a medical condition? 'i'm sorry, you have a burning case of feminagges. i can give you some penicillin for that.'

or is it supposed to be feminags? as in feminist+nag=feminags?

snort. maybe i shouldn't ban him anymore. i haven't giggled this hard in days.

ding said...

and MRA stands for 'Men, Absolutely Alone.'

look up Mens Rights Activists in wikipedia or even male feminists, of which they're an offshoot . it's a good read.

from a theoretical standpoint i think there are some things that MRAers complain about that briefly contain a glimmer of sense: the rare cogent criticisms of the justice system, the occasional rational arguments about how our modern capitalist system also oppresses men in our educational systems or medical systems. (there may even be some connection between their less crazy ideas and foucault.)

but they'll never read foucault; they'll never see themselves implicated in The System or want a way out of it, even though they're trapped in as big a patriarchal maze as we are.

rather than look at their problems from a systemic pov, the MRAers just turn around and rely on tired gender stereotype that supports the very system that oppresses them, rather than looking outside of the system to fight it. they don't really want to be liberated; they just want to exercise more of their gender/race privilege (which they have by virtue of their sex, despite their double-consciousness) over the weak - which is female, in their schema.

(even though the Female is also of whom they're also afraid)

it's totally crazy. they all need therapy.

Verlch said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ding said...

that's it. you're banned again, V.
threats of violence?

i don't think so, freak.

Anonymous said...

He threatened violence?

ding said...

uh, yeah.
in the face of my rather well-reasoned critique of the MRM, he wanted to know if i'd say this to his face and then he said he bet i wouldn't because he'd hold me down, hit me and shave my head.

all of which really supports everything i said about those in the MRM in the first place.

was it really a 'threat'? perhaps not. but it took his normal level of irrationality to a whole new level. i suppose i should have left the comment in place but, again, this is my house. if someone says they'd like to hold me down and hit me in my own house, they get kicked out.

Verlch said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ding said...

V - you don't take instruction very well.

get the fuck off this space.